Why we still need diesels.

"cuts_off_prius" (cutsoffprius)
04/04/2017 at 11:21 • Filed to: None

Upcoming Chevrolet Equinox will be offered with a diesel option, estimated to achieve over 40 MPG highway.

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Or at least, that’s my takeaway from this interesting read on Slate. Counterpoint to the article on the front page about the end of diesels:

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A person who owned a 2013 VW TDI SportWagen cashed out and got a check from VW after that whole shit show. Lifestyle: lives on a steep mountain with a dirt road, has a dog, takes a bike with her, etc. She found that petrol cars that got decent gas mileage (~40 mpg) were overwhelmingly on the small side (think Honda Civic & Mazda 3). EVs had terrible range and were not suitable for her cold climate. She tried a Prius and it “felt like I was driving a computer.” Desperate to find a car so she can just get on with her life, she eventually settled on a Kia Niro crossover hybrid.

The landscape, as I saw it—bleak and dispiriting—looked like this: If I wanted a car that was pleasant to drive, it would have less than optimal gas mileage.

Just goes to show how our market here needs more efficient cars that are larger and practical. Yes, that means more diesels. CAFE is not helping. CAFE makes fuel economy targets tougher on small footprint cars and makes it more lax on large footprint cars. People overwhelmingly buy large cars here. The upcoming Chevrolet Equinox and GMC Terrain diesels which can haul your small family and are estimated to achieve over 40 mpg highway are a good sign of things to come. From GM, at least.

Let’s be real here. How else are car makers going to acheive fleet fuel economy targets when people overwhelmingly buy vehicles categorized as “light trucks?” The average age for a car in America is like 11 years old I believe. Who wants to pay over five grand just for a replacement hybrid battery? Wide open highways and suburban roads that blanket America are best for diesels to achieve maximum effiency (hybrids perform better in dense urban evironments). This is why diesel makes sense here in the States.

DISCUSSION (13)

duurtlang > cuts_off_prius
04/04/2017 at 11:49

You don’t need diesels, you need to get rid of the stupid CAFE loophole that make economy/emissions regulations more lax if a car is tall.

bhtooefr > cuts_off_prius
04/04/2017 at 12:14

Although properly implemented hybrids also prevent the gas engine from running in inefficient regimes, and $5000 is rather high for a battery replacement unless it’s a plug-in hybrid... and the failure rate isn’t that high, at least outside of Hondas.

Conversely, a single fuel system failure will be far more than $5000 on a diesel. A turbo failure and a DPF failure could be as much as a battery failure on a hybrid.

CalzoneGolem > cuts_off_prius
04/04/2017 at 12:17

Diesel’s image was bad in the states before. Now it is completely fucked. No one is going to be buying diesels just like no one is buying manuals.

carcrazydan738 > cuts_off_prius
04/04/2017 at 12:26

Diesels are only good in heavy machinery such as construction equipment, farm tractors, buses some RVs, semi trucks-stuff like that. Other than that my prius that I own will cut off any car you have any day!

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > bhtooefr
04/04/2017 at 12:30

Thats why you delete DPF as soon as you buy a diesel vehicle. :)

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > cuts_off_prius
04/04/2017 at 12:31

naw fam diesel trucks will be around for a long time. especially here in the states

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > bhtooefr
04/04/2017 at 13:47

The thing is that the US doesn’t have many places where hybrids can turn off the engine for efficiency. As he mentioned, we have highways and suburbs where you can’t derive much higher efficiency from a hybrid. The best would actually be diesel-electric hybrids for the US market.

Current GDI tech is pretty good for maximizing torque and HP at various RPMs, but fuel economy is adversely affected when we do it.

I don’t know that there is a best solution, short of battery electrics with swappable battery packs.

bhtooefr > Eric @ opposite-lock.com
04/04/2017 at 14:04

It doesn’t take much of a downhill at all to get my Prius’s engine to shut off, though, at speeds appropriate for 55 mph back roads. Now, freeway speeds... it’s gonna be in construction or at least some slowed traffic that the engine will shut off - 73 mph is the most that I’ve seen it shut off - but it does shut off.

And, I mean, on a road trip on interstates, I tend to average about 5% “EV driving time” (read: engine shut off going downhill or slowing for construction or the like).

Liam Farrell > cuts_off_prius
04/04/2017 at 14:30

I was reading on the BMW website earlier that the 328i makes more emissions than the 328d. But then again the 328d is really just a 320d with a marketing strategy. I should have looked at the 320i.

cuts_off_prius > Liam Farrell
04/04/2017 at 15:34

There’s actually not a significant difference between 320i and 328i in terms of emissions since they are the same 2.0T with one being detuned.

Liam Farrell > cuts_off_prius
04/04/2017 at 18:24

Very true, but I did find it a little weird they complain about diesel pollution when the gas car pollutes more.

cuts_off_prius > Liam Farrell
04/04/2017 at 18:31

For the diesel, it’s not the overall emissions that worries health experts and legislators. They emit less than their petrol counterparts. It’s the NOx (and particulates) that diesels naturally produce more of. NOx has negative health effects, such as aggravating existing respiratory issues like ashtma, I wrote a whole paper on it. I’m not sure of how much more NOx they emit exactly, but European cities tend to have some smog due to the prevalence of diesels, but I think that’s more from diesels from older cars and commercial vehicles. And the compact design of European cities probably worsens that. However, I think diesels would be just fine in America, because our country is spread out more and has lots of carbon sinks due to our great forests and greenery (not that new diesels are as dirty as past diesels).

Liam Farrell > cuts_off_prius
04/04/2017 at 20:50

Well I’m fucked. My Rover produces more smoke than a wildfire.

I really like diesel and think it definitely should be much more prevalent, but unfortunately manufacturers decided on hybrids which are pretty much only good in the city in which case those people don’t really have cars.

My dad is looking for a new used car with good MPG because he had a long commute, so I have been pushing for diesel because they usually get like 50% better MPG. My Rover gets 100% better MPG than its gas counterparts which is pretty good for something so inefficient.